Shanti Zinzi: Feline Health Secrets: Underrated Tips for Boosting Your Cat's Longevity and Happiness | E56

[00:00:00] So generally, cats will obviously most of them will like to be touched sort of under the chin around the whiskers. And you can gently bring a brush there. And each day you do that in a very loving way where the cat is showing pleasure. Don't let them get to the point of overstimulation, looking at their body language and slowly build upon that.

[00:00:28] Welcome to the Pet Care Report podcast by Pet Summits. Here's your natural cat healthcare host, Dr. Megan Barrett.

[00:00:36] Welcome back to the show, everyone. Thanks for tuning in today. We have a very special guest to speak with us about feline health secrets, underrated tips for boosting your cat's longevity and happiness. So our guest today, I'm so excited to speak with her is Shanti Zinzi. She is a highly skilled feline behavior consultant, who brings a very unique and diverse background in Chinese medicine, subtle energetics, somatic psychology and behavior and functional medicine.

[00:01:06] She uses this knowledge to understand and address the root causes of behavioral issues in cats, focusing on a holistic approach that promotes overall well-being. Shanti's commitment to all life and her appreciation for the interconnectedness between animals and the natural world is evident in her work, making her a compassionate advocate for the well-being and conservation of our companion animals and the planet. Woo! So awesome. So thank you again for joining us. So excited for this talk.

[00:01:35] Yeah, it's delightful to be here with you today.

[00:01:38] So for our cats, what would you say are some of the hidden or underrated factors that can affect their health and lifespan that many pet owners might be unaware of?

[00:01:49] Well, I think there's a few, and I'll likely just focus on one today and they probably all dovetail, but stress, as we know, is an enormous factor that we're not always aware of in our pets.

[00:02:01] The one I'd like to focus on today is indoor air quality and indoor pollution, because there's a narrative that probably gained a lot more popularity in the past 10 to 15 years of cats do not need to be outdoors.

[00:02:16] So what are the ramifications of that?

[00:02:19] And how is that affecting our pets?

[00:02:21] You know, when I was younger, a lot of people let their animals out.

[00:02:26] Now there's concern for the ecosystem and obviously the pets, the cat's safety.

[00:02:31] What's happening inside?

[00:02:34] And because of the fact that I live in San Francisco, I've seen a lot of changes in the health, especially in the last technology boom where people were renovating their homes, renting out, selling.

[00:02:48] There was a lot of development in the city, which there was a lot of fine particulate matter that we were inhaling and breathing inside the homes.

[00:02:57] There's a lot of formaldehydes, flame retardants, new windows, lots of paint.

[00:03:02] All this is off-gassing.

[00:03:04] All these things can off-gas for up to two years.

[00:03:08] And forever chemicals are pretty ubiquitous in the homes that I don't think we have enough conscious awareness of.

[00:03:15] And we think of cats, you know, their noses are on the floor and the dust piles are under the bed where things like mold and these chemicals are actually cling to.

[00:03:27] And they're actually clinging to the coat.

[00:03:29] And when the cat is grooming, they're ingesting it.

[00:03:32] So not only are they inhaling, they're also ingesting these chemicals.

[00:03:37] And the interesting thing is in 2023, there was a study that cats have been found to have 23 times the amount of flame retardants in their urine compared to dogs and compared to humans.

[00:03:49] That's just mind-blowing.

[00:03:51] So, right, that's coming in on the mattresses, the sofas, the cat beds.

[00:03:54] And I find that to be quite scary.

[00:03:57] And three times the amount of cancer-causing agents, five times the amount of mercury.

[00:04:03] And, you know, the mercury I'll probably, a lot of that I blame on the food and the rendering process of the seafood junkies.

[00:04:13] Right?

[00:04:13] Hidden in the, I mean, third ingredient is tuna or seafood or something that's...

[00:04:21] Yeah, the seafood-based foods.

[00:04:23] And I'm always like, if I ate fish every day for like a month, I wouldn't be through the roof with mercury.

[00:04:30] Yeah.

[00:04:30] And we're feeding that to cats every day for their whole lives in some cases.

[00:04:34] Yeah.

[00:04:34] And, you know, it's a nephrotoxin.

[00:04:36] I mean, it's interesting because sometimes, you know, you look at these indoor cats and they have this...

[00:04:41] They don't really get into anything.

[00:04:43] So they can't get into antifreeze or something outside.

[00:04:45] But suddenly they're diagnosed with acute kidney failure, renal failure.

[00:04:48] And I'll look at the diet and I'll start asking the person, you know, friend or client.

[00:04:53] Turns out, you know, they're eating particular brands that are loaded with tuna and loaded with mackerel.

[00:04:59] And I thought, this is a cumulative burden.

[00:05:02] You know, you're feeding once a month, not quite a big deal.

[00:05:05] But the ones that that's all they're going to eat, that is really causing detrimental health issues.

[00:05:14] So that's so interesting about all the air quality information you just gave.

[00:05:19] I think I completely agree with everything you said.

[00:05:22] And it's so lacking in the awareness that people have just, you know, not only how all these chemicals in the home are affecting our cats, but also us.

[00:05:34] And just, you know, the way that we're like Amazon addicts buying stuff constantly, I think bringing all these new products into the house can be a big source of the chemicals that are used to manufacture things nowadays.

[00:05:47] Yeah.

[00:05:48] And the renovation and even, you know, even back going far as older homes with mold.

[00:05:53] That's another issue, respiratory, asthma, cancer.

[00:05:58] And the thought process is it takes a few years to affect an animal with chronic disease, such as asthma, cancer, even thyroid disease, which to me is quite interesting.

[00:06:08] And with humans, it could take decades.

[00:06:10] So they are definitely the barometer of the health in the home.

[00:06:15] Yeah.

[00:06:16] Canary in the coal mine.

[00:06:17] Yeah, definitely canary in the coal mine.

[00:06:19] And another one I think is pretty huge is gas appliances.

[00:06:24] So benzene, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide.

[00:06:28] There was a San Francisco, they were actually testing it in homes and it's quite high.

[00:06:33] What's coming off the gas stoves and in certain places like New York City, if you're building a new apartment complex or a new home, you're no longer allowed to have gas appliances or gas stoves because of how it's affecting human health.

[00:06:45] And when we think about day after day, you know, our cats inside are breathing this air.

[00:06:51] Yeah.

[00:06:52] Wow.

[00:06:52] So besides, you know, opening the window when you're cooking or using the stove, what are some other practical ways we can mitigate these things?

[00:07:01] I think, you know, four to eight hours a day if you can with the fresh flowing air.

[00:07:06] And I will tell people that and I'll go back for another, say, house call visit or recheck and they'll have the window open two inches.

[00:07:14] And I mean, no fresh air, like weather permitting.

[00:07:17] You know, obviously, if you're living in an extremely cold climate, it's quite different.

[00:07:23] But we can add plants.

[00:07:25] You know, if we have a green thumb, it's great.

[00:07:28] But things such as moss, foster fern, aloe, spider plants, snake plants.

[00:07:33] I mean, hopefully you go indigenous or what's, you know, native to your area, but they will clean up formaldehyde.

[00:07:40] The issue is how many plants you actually need.

[00:07:42] And one study I saw was saying, like, you know, maybe one plant every square foot, which would be, you know, quite a number of plants.

[00:07:51] But as much as you can possibly do, I think another great one is some of these carbon air filters that are not just the HEPA air filters, but ones that are pretty heavy duty, 23 pound carbon filters.

[00:08:04] There's an IQ Air from Switzerland.

[00:08:06] There's AirPure from Canada.

[00:08:07] Those are pretty great at cleaning out formaldehyde and smoke and different chemicals or noxious chemicals in the air.

[00:08:14] Clearly, you want to try to get as green as possible.

[00:08:18] And unfortunately, there's a lot of greenwashing.

[00:08:20] So you have to really do a lot of research before you bring things into the home.

[00:08:25] And because there's more awareness with moms, I always recommend trying organic baby blankets instead of cat beds.

[00:08:33] And there's a GOTS certification, which is GOTS and is organic textile.

[00:08:39] So you can always look for that.

[00:08:41] And if you just anything that comes in, you know, new fabric, new towels, new sheets, run it through the wash once in a cold setting, air dry it because heat will actually restitch the formaldehyde.

[00:08:54] But if you wash it before it comes into the home, yeah, it's kind of amazing.

[00:08:59] There's so much that you actually need to do.

[00:09:01] But just these little things and awareness can actually help.

[00:09:04] And I think one that's really important, too, is many of us live above garages or some of us living in high rises and buildings.

[00:09:12] There are certain businesses below us that are using chemicals.

[00:09:16] And in building science, that's called the stack effect.

[00:09:19] And chemicals that are below us, you know, whether there's an atmosphere of change or someone's opening and closing a garage door or slamming something slamming shut like another door.

[00:09:29] All of that air and chemicals is coming up through the walls, you know, and going through the floorboards or through the vents and your cat's breathing up.

[00:09:40] So I always recommend to anything from, you know, art supplies, paints, paint centers, any of these products, if you do need to have them, airtight storage container outside of the home.

[00:09:51] You have to clean up the garage and the basements because all this stuff is coming up into the home, especially to the top floors.

[00:10:00] Like, you know, if there's a three story home, whatever's being stored in the garage is coming up.

[00:10:06] Some other things that I like to think about is with the carbon monoxide in the gas appliances.

[00:10:11] And I did this for my home as I invested in a carbon monoxide detector for air pilots, for pilots,

[00:10:17] because they're a lot more sensitive than the ones that we're buying in homes from the hardware store.

[00:10:23] So they can run anywhere from a couple hundred USDs to the professional ones are a lot more expensive.

[00:10:29] But they are very sensitive because the ones that we're getting in the hardware stores are only registering parts per billion that are toxic for 15 to 30 minutes.

[00:10:39] So your animal or you may be exposed to it for, say, 14 minutes or 29 minutes before the alarm was actually, the alarm was emergent.

[00:10:49] So these very sensitive ones that the pilots use are a great thing to add to your kitchen or wherever your water heater is.

[00:10:56] Those are a couple of things that are a few things that we could do.

[00:11:00] And I always like to do the TCM detox annually.

[00:11:04] Spring is a time of detoxification.

[00:11:07] Fall, the opposite time of year.

[00:11:09] I'd like to add things, milk thistles, sun chlorella, dandelion onto the food.

[00:11:14] You could sprinkle it, dehydrate it.

[00:11:16] There are certain detox products that are out there that cats will find potentially palatable and make my own for mine.

[00:11:23] And I think if you do it maintenance, I think we all need this and how the world is moving.

[00:11:28] But our pets ourselves, you know, besides the major seasons of spring and fall, which is that TCM detox time, especially the spring, which corresponds to the liver.

[00:11:38] You could do two days a week or you're sprinkling on some kind of topper.

[00:11:42] That's a detox aid or one week of every two months as an ongoing maintenance to make sure that we're assisting the methylation pathways in the body and helping the kitty rid or our pets rid some of this buildup, this cumulative burden.

[00:12:00] That's so important.

[00:12:01] I think, too, any time if your pet gets vaccinated or if they get any type of medications like the flea preventatives or anesthesia, those are also good times to consider doing some types of detox methods to help with your cats support the liver and eliminating the things that they're being exposed to.

[00:12:21] Definitely. Yes.

[00:12:22] And how do you feel, Dr. Megan?

[00:12:23] Are you doing titers for your patients or do you feel how do you feel about that?

[00:12:28] Yeah, for dogs, we do a lot of titering.

[00:12:31] Cats, I feel like some of the tighter tests are harder to come by.

[00:12:35] And so if they're indoor cats, you know, I don't do a lot of vaccinations for them.

[00:12:40] But if they do go outside, we have quite a bit of feline leukemia in my area.

[00:12:44] So that's one that I'll recommend keeping up on.

[00:12:47] And does the general public in Hawaii, because obviously, you know, this word, which I find quite damaging psychologically because, you know, we have cats, the invasive argument.

[00:12:58] Do you find that as time is going on, more people are not they're feeling very strongly or there's a polarization about outdoor cats or cats being allowed outdoors?

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:10] Here in particular, there's a huge controversy about it because we have a very, very large feral cat population.

[00:13:17] And we also are a unique ecosystem.

[00:13:20] And there are some endangered species that are endemic to Hawaii, such as the Hawaiian monk seal.

[00:13:27] And there's this interesting interplay now between whether the cats might be reservoirs for certain diseases such as toxoplasmosis.

[00:13:36] And we see the other animals getting toxoplasmosis and wondering and doing science to see if the cats are partially responsible for that.

[00:13:45] So the feral cats are one thing.

[00:13:47] And then there's your pet cats who may go outside and hurt or kill the native birds, which we also have a lot of special native birds here.

[00:13:57] So I think it's a conundrum.

[00:14:00] And I don't know that there's a perfect solution at this time because, you know, our cats have needs and cats are very popular.

[00:14:09] They're common pets.

[00:14:10] And so to lock them indoors and sacrifice their needs for the environment is, you know, there's downsides to that.

[00:14:17] But then letting them outside, there's downsides to that, too.

[00:14:20] So it's tough.

[00:14:22] But I will say my cats do go outside because I'm very fortunate to live in an area where we're away from roads and we live right behind a big mountain.

[00:14:32] So they pretty much spend their time just wandering through the forest and hunting little lizards.

[00:14:38] And I think it's really good for them, but they do kill things pretty often.

[00:14:43] Yeah, I guess they slow down as they get a little bit older.

[00:14:46] But I know it's tough.

[00:14:48] They do, very much.

[00:14:48] Yeah, it's like, you know, there's a sacred relationship that we inherently and innately have with the earth and the planet.

[00:14:55] And these are cats are just living there.

[00:14:58] We have to sort of take off the technology.

[00:15:00] And there's so many things to reconnect to the earth.

[00:15:03] But cats are living there.

[00:15:05] You know, they're in this very present, sacred, reverent relationship.

[00:15:09] It's a symbiotic relationship with the earth.

[00:15:12] And it is a very difficult conundrum.

[00:15:15] And, you know, there's so many things like, oh, supervise outside or harness training or if there's a deck or bringing the plants in, bringing.

[00:15:23] I tell people in high rises, bring in like just pots of soil.

[00:15:26] Let them roll around in the soil.

[00:15:28] There's beneficial organisms literally in that soil.

[00:15:31] And, you know, I don't clearly mean like you worry about roundworm or different things in soil.

[00:15:35] But things that are, you know, they consider in Western medicine.

[00:15:38] Now they're finding that it's sort of like antidepressants.

[00:15:41] And I'm like, oh, yeah, there's very healing.

[00:15:43] Like health is not found in the laboratory.

[00:15:46] Probiotics.

[00:15:47] Yeah.

[00:15:47] Health is absolutely found on the planet and in the elements.

[00:15:51] Yeah.

[00:15:51] It's funny now because they have capsules of the soil-based probiotics for pets and people to take.

[00:15:57] It's like if we just went outside more and we're gardening and.

[00:16:01] Rolls around in the dirt.

[00:16:03] Animals outside in the dirt, then they would be getting those.

[00:16:05] So I always wonder if that's why animals will be seen eating dirt sometimes is that that interest in the probiotics and, you know, the microbes that are living in the soil.

[00:16:14] They have that instinct for that.

[00:16:15] Yeah.

[00:16:15] It's a definite deficiency.

[00:16:17] I used to wonder like when dogs were doing it, like, oh, is that a selenium deficiency or what is it?

[00:16:22] But that definitely makes sense that it's they're taking in what they need.

[00:16:27] I mean, that's what I mean of a natural inherent intelligence that they have that we're not giving them enough credit for.

[00:16:33] And to deprive them of that is really a bridge we have to somehow cross that I hope we're able to do.

[00:16:40] Yeah, I think for folks who have indoor cats, it's a kind of that guardian responsibility to do everything you can to learn about and provide things that can enrich your cat's indoor life.

[00:16:52] You know, if that's the situation that is best for them, because maybe you live in a city or a high rise and your cat companion lives there with you, then, you know, take that time to learn about some of these things and do them so that your cat can still have that nice, enriched life indoors.

[00:17:08] What other tips do you have for that type of thing?

[00:17:11] Well, I think to another those the bird song.

[00:17:15] So absolutely, the windows have to be open.

[00:17:17] The outdoor air is so much cleaner than indoor air, but just their vomerial nasal organ is stimulated.

[00:17:24] They're able to tell, you know, the cats that are that passed last night.

[00:17:29] I mean, there's so much information that they're actually getting that's stimulating their brain from the sound to the chemical messages on the breezes.

[00:17:37] And, you know, sensing and smelling and seeing the birds outside and hearing that.

[00:17:42] I tell people, you know, set up some lovely perch in front of the window that they can be on top of and, you know, climb, but that they can actually see the world go by.

[00:17:52] Because it can be pretty isolating to just think that they can exist and be happy and healthy inside of a home with not being able to access the elements.

[00:18:04] So those are some things that, you know, I'll tell people, whatever you can bring in from the outside, that's natural inside.

[00:18:11] You know, I'm not into the plastic toys or the ones that are, you know, there's lead based and cadmium based inks and all these artificial feathers and stuff.

[00:18:20] Right. Twigs, something natural that.

[00:18:22] Yeah.

[00:18:23] You're finding feathers outside something that you can bring in to stimulate them.

[00:18:28] And, of course, you know, if someone's looking to adopt an animal and they have a small apartment, I always tell them to adopt an older animal because there's, you know, thousands of pets that have been surrendered.

[00:18:38] Owners pass away for whatever reason, can't afford the animal anymore that are looking for homes and shelters.

[00:18:43] And they don't have the needs that those three-year-olds or five-year-olds do.

[00:18:47] And they're more content to be lab cats.

[00:18:50] So they'll be happier indoors.

[00:18:52] So I always sort of, you know, push towards if they're on the market to get a new animal to nine and above to adopt.

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:00] For very, for so many reasons.

[00:19:02] Yeah, exactly.

[00:19:03] Those cats need good homes too.

[00:19:06] Exactly.

[00:19:07] So for these cats that are like indoors and maybe not getting the mental stimulation.

[00:19:13] You know, so we talked about the Gotham.

[00:19:15] And the Green Guard is another one I'm sorry, I don't know if I mentioned.

[00:19:18] Did I mention the Green Guard?

[00:19:20] No, go ahead.

[00:19:20] For the home, for the fabrics in the house, there's a certification that for any kind of things that you're buying the home, sofas and things you're adding,

[00:19:30] there's a few certifications that are, you know, global certification that you can get to make sure that the air inside the home is clean or less emissions.

[00:19:38] I think it's so important for everyone to become more aware of that.

[00:19:41] And even just like the clothing that we wear, you know, made of recycled plastics and things like that.

[00:19:47] A lot of things that are kind of pitched as eco-friendly even then might not be healthy because if it's recycled and it's good for the environment, that still might not mean that it's good for you.

[00:19:57] Yeah, and that's where I think it's true.

[00:20:00] It's a lot of sort of marketing that we're manipulated by and we're thinking, oh, this product is healthy or eco-conscious.

[00:20:09] And you kind of dig a little deeper and you realize, well, no, that's a bit of marketing or green marketing.

[00:20:14] So for cats who may be living indoors and experiencing stress for different reasons, whether it's, you know, lack of enrichment and stimulation or, you know, noise pollution or dynamics between family members or other pets,

[00:20:29] what are some of the signs of that type of stress that may be more subtle and how can that affect them long term?

[00:20:37] Well, I think, you know, you have to know your animal.

[00:20:40] There's a, you know, personalities exist on a continuum.

[00:20:44] If you have a cat that's a big stranger danger cat and is always, you know, hides when someone comes over,

[00:20:51] that's very different than a very social cat that comes to greet and is suddenly hiding.

[00:20:57] So you kind of look at personality changes and you have to chart that, but know the origins or the cat's personality.

[00:21:06] You know, if there's any change in grooming, over grooming, if the cat is suddenly hiding, it's not normally hiding.

[00:21:13] The cat is more irritable.

[00:21:15] Those are all signs of things going on.

[00:21:17] Yeah.

[00:21:18] Under grooming too, I think.

[00:21:19] Yeah.

[00:21:20] And the coat is so important.

[00:21:22] You know, the vitality in the eyes.

[00:21:24] Most cats, even when they're ill, there's a certain vitality and shen there, but you have to really chart that and chart.

[00:21:30] There should be a plush coat.

[00:21:31] It should have a sheen.

[00:21:32] It should be shiny.

[00:21:33] A lot of that has to do with diet, which obviously I know you're teaching all your clients with the home cooked and these wonderful recipes.

[00:21:41] But it will show up there.

[00:21:44] And what I find is shows up in the eyes with chronic illness and senior cats.

[00:21:49] And it used to just be dismissed as senior kitties.

[00:21:55] When you look at iridology charts, when cats get flecks on their eyes, it corresponds to different endocrine system, the organs, the lymphatic system.

[00:22:05] You can see things building in the body before it actually shows up on a blood test.

[00:22:09] And that's something like people can actually sort of research online, the iridology topography map of the eye and look at your cat's eyes and just keep your eye on when suddenly there's a hyperpigmentation there.

[00:22:22] Is it corresponding to the liver, the kidneys?

[00:22:24] Is there's a ring around the actual iris that corresponds to the lymphatic system?

[00:22:30] So if we can try and keep on top of something like that, and if the cat does have a lot of squiggly lines and they're lymphatic, you know, it's important to keep some exercising, to keep some blood moving.

[00:22:43] And I think we can get on top of and divert the course of disease because things are happening in layers, cumulatively, coming from so many different behaviorally stress, stress in the home, on top of poor diet or chemicals in the diet, on top of inhalation.

[00:23:00] But if we're these little things that we can chart and monitor a long way, including litter box and their appetite and how much water they're drinking, we can actually make a difference.

[00:23:11] And potentially the animal will not end up on a course of chronic illness or diverts across the course of chronic illness or abated, I would say.

[00:23:21] What a word to use.

[00:23:23] Yeah, definitely.

[00:23:24] And I like how you bring up the lymphatic system because I think, you know, that's a part of the detoxification system too is, you know, keeping those fluids moving.

[00:23:33] So I think that's also why it's so important to, you know, massage your cat and groom them, teach them early on if you can to accept grooming and brushing so that, you know, it's not a scary thing for them to have your hands on them in a loving, gentle way so that you can help to keep the fluids moving for them.

[00:23:53] That's wonderful.

[00:23:54] Some of them where, you know, they come from homes and you can tell that perhaps they were brushed a little too aggressively or not mindfully and maybe the former person wasn't very present.

[00:24:06] You can decondition that out of them very gently.

[00:24:09] And I always say less is more and that could be building.

[00:24:13] So generally cats will obviously, most of them will like to be touched sort of under the tune around the whiskers and you can gently bring a brush there.

[00:24:23] And each day you do that in a very loving way where the cat is showing pleasure.

[00:24:28] Don't let them get to the point of overstimulation, looking at their body language and slowly build upon that.

[00:24:34] So we start with three seconds.

[00:24:36] They enjoy it.

[00:24:37] The next day we may do four or five seconds.

[00:24:39] They enjoy it.

[00:24:40] So a little bit incremental steps.

[00:24:42] And suddenly we realize we're actually sort of tapping into a more primordial or more unconscious sense of queen cat grooming the kitten.

[00:24:54] And they start to enjoy it and it becomes something they actually like.

[00:24:58] So there is a way to decondition the cats that don't like to be brushed and train them to actually enjoy it.

[00:25:06] Yeah, I love that.

[00:25:07] It's such a cool tip.

[00:25:08] And I definitely get that vibe with my cats.

[00:25:11] Like sometimes my male cat doesn't like to be brushed as much as the female.

[00:25:16] But if we go really slow and just work up to it, I can see it in his face how when he relaxes, he's almost like a little baby.

[00:25:24] And it's just like, oh, yeah, like mom, lick my head.

[00:25:28] And it's really sweet to be brushing them.

[00:25:32] I think it's so nice for cats to experience that in a positive way.

[00:25:35] I agree.

[00:25:36] It's very bonding.

[00:25:37] Yes, very nurturing.

[00:25:38] And I think there's a way, you know, just parting the fur.

[00:25:42] I know like when I used to go out to appointments because I worked at a few practices and, you know, whether it was myself or the vet, we would just take our hands and just go up the back of their fur.

[00:25:52] And you could see instantly the patients would enjoy that.

[00:25:56] You know, we just go right to the root of the fur to check to see if there's fleas or flea dirt.

[00:26:01] And that set the tone for the rest of the exam.

[00:26:04] And the cats would just be like, oh, I'm starting to purr.

[00:26:07] Like, we like this person.

[00:26:09] So, you know, there's these little very subtle things.

[00:26:11] And I think if we just keep going back to the relationship of the queen with the kitten, she gets to the bottom of the fur and she's trying to pick out the fleas or to clean them.

[00:26:22] And if we just mimic these little things that happen naturally, it often can unlock those little tips or those little areas where it becomes, you know, something that we're eventually able to groom them in a way that's very pleasurable and very bonding for them.

[00:27:05] Yeah.

[00:27:08] Do you think it's a matter of sort of slowing back the program?

[00:27:12] And cats will give, that's a very conditioned response.

[00:27:15] And they'll give generally a lot of cues before they get there.

[00:27:20] If they're immediately biting, it's because their boundaries have been invaded for so long, so many times.

[00:27:26] So they're so frustrated.

[00:27:27] And that's kind of a little bit of a difficult one.

[00:27:30] But I start with that one second and less is more means is a lot for them.

[00:27:36] And that's slowly building upon that incrementally, never getting to the point of overstimulation.

[00:27:42] But what I would do, because there's a lot of times I've been called in to get feral cats or cats that were under socialized out of homes after an owner passed away.

[00:27:52] Or one of the hospitals here would send me out with people that were disenfranchised and didn't have health insurance.

[00:27:58] So I'd have to somehow gather the cat.

[00:28:02] And what I would do is put a bit of like a very soft pom-pom on the end of a long stick and very, in a non-threatening way, get to the cat.

[00:28:12] And just when they were sort of ready or calming, you know, I'll give them calming signals, which is closing my eyes.

[00:28:19] Because that's a calming signal between cats and start to touch some under their chin.

[00:28:25] And the moment they start putting their head out, you know, it's kind of like, oh, you've made progress.

[00:28:30] We can move this slowly forward with them.

[00:28:33] But they really align with touch.

[00:28:35] You know, some people just naturally have a very grounded, centered, loving, nurturing way about them and way that they handle animals.

[00:28:44] And the animals will sense that very quickly.

[00:28:47] Others are maybe a little bit not as aware of touch or what's being communicated.

[00:28:52] And it's very important, I think, to think of the qualities that are in our touch.

[00:28:57] Are we doing it quickly?

[00:28:59] Are we doing it aggressively too fast?

[00:29:02] Are we pulling our hand away too fast?

[00:29:03] Because I would always, you know, if I was present for exams and I'd watch someone pull their hand away too quickly, the cat would turn around and swat.

[00:29:11] So as opposed to an animal's touch and we gently pull away, it's less likely to trigger this defensive mechanism.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:20] I think for those of us who work with animals and those who may have a sensitive pet of their own,

[00:29:25] it's important to know to move very consciously around.

[00:29:29] Like your own movements can have such an effect on their own responses and reflexes to things.

[00:29:35] Yeah.

[00:29:36] And, you know, and even in homes, I think if someone has a meditation or yoga practice, like a client,

[00:29:41] I always tell them, invite the animal into that.

[00:29:43] Because one, it's very grounding for the person.

[00:29:46] And, you know, to somehow bring their love practice into that.

[00:29:50] And if the animal's in the room, that's resonating and reverberating with the pet.

[00:29:54] Because sometimes, you know, it's a lot of reflection.

[00:29:57] If there's a lot of anxiety that we have, then they're more on it.

[00:30:01] And if we're emanating a more peaceful, loving practice, even if it's just 10 minutes a day, they will start relaxing into it.

[00:30:10] And that's, you know, when people are adopting or animals that have a history of a behavior issue or have, like you said, they're overly sensitive.

[00:30:19] Yeah, I think it's nice for your pets to witness you in that state of, you know, the healthy and universal vibrations that are going on.

[00:30:28] Not just like on our phones or running around getting ready in the morning.

[00:30:31] Yeah, the sympathetic nervous system.

[00:30:34] Whenever I'm on my phone, my cats are coming over like, hey, hey, why aren't you being present with me?

[00:30:40] Yeah, that's exactly when mine just jumps off the bed.

[00:30:42] You know, if I have the phone and he just doesn't like it.

[00:30:45] And I realize, you know, I'm not present.

[00:30:47] I'm not grounded.

[00:30:49] I'm not in a loving place.

[00:30:50] It's this mental energy that's just not of the earth.

[00:30:54] It's, you know, sort of it starts to get the wheels spinning.

[00:30:58] And immediately he's like, oh, no, I'm not.

[00:31:01] And he was one of those very under socialized animals who spent nine months in the ring war and moored.

[00:31:05] And he was never, maybe didn't touch him.

[00:31:08] The only time they touched him was the didbum and the lime sulfur.

[00:31:11] So you can, I took him for that reason, because I knew a lot of other people probably could not handle him.

[00:31:16] And he absolutely, you know, took him.

[00:31:19] And there was another kitten that from his group that I had adopted.

[00:31:22] So there was a familiarity that, you know, he was with for nine months in that ring war and moored.

[00:31:28] And he climbed the wainscoting, tore through, you know, the screens.

[00:31:32] He would just climb under sofas, climb under the bed.

[00:31:35] I mean, he had a lot of stress to work out.

[00:31:39] And what really brought him back is his contact with the earth.

[00:31:42] You know, people are like, oh, you should put him on some kind of pharmaceutical.

[00:31:45] I'm like, there's just no way I'm going to put my animal on a behavioral pharmaceutical.

[00:31:49] And he found what he needed.

[00:31:51] And not because I wanted to let him out, but he broke through the screen and just ended up perching on the earth, came back and would do that every day.

[00:31:59] And that's what we patterned him to, you know, it took time after that for him to trust me.

[00:32:06] And he watched me with the other animals.

[00:32:08] But there was a sense of safety because of how the other animals were responding to me that he was witnessing.

[00:32:14] But it's a, he's the one that I have now that's 17 and he's come a really long way.

[00:32:19] So, you know, don't give up hope if you get these little under socialized animals in the very beginning.

[00:32:24] As time goes on, they will definitely open up if you sort of provide that very looking environment for them.

[00:32:32] Yeah, that's so great.

[00:32:33] And speaking of older cats, one more thing I wanted to ask you about because of your expertise.

[00:32:39] If you have a cat that's older or maybe even approaching the end of their life,

[00:32:44] I know that you have an expertise with what you call sacred palliative care.

[00:32:49] Can you share more about that and some things from that lesson that our listeners could maybe take away from to be honoring their cat in that golden years of their life?

[00:33:00] Sure.

[00:33:01] Well, I tend to think, you know, I mean, it's a very difficult position, right?

[00:33:06] This is our little sacred love angel that's brought into the world with the little quadrupeds that are guiding us.

[00:33:13] And they're with us, what, 15, 20 years, some dying so much earlier now, 6, 12.

[00:33:17] How do we hold this place with sacred reverence without panicking to rush to save them?

[00:33:22] Because I do believe very stressed animals, you know, if they're constantly being taken to, they're in a car, they're in the carrier, they can't stand it.

[00:33:32] They're feeling very stressed out, traumatized.

[00:33:35] Are we diminishing them by this constant, like in these brick and mortar visits, giving them certain medications?

[00:33:44] How are we, you know, what is it exactly we can do to support them that isn't going to diminish them?

[00:33:51] And I think holding space for what the owner, how they, some people really want their animals to go naturally.

[00:33:57] A lot of people I found that are of a Buddhist faith.

[00:34:00] So we have to hold that in a way to hold a sacredness there and to reflect on the love, provide a lot of comfort.

[00:34:08] There's very, there's things just at home that you can do to make it easier.

[00:34:11] You know, have everything that they need in a very small area.

[00:34:15] The home should be quiet.

[00:34:17] Not if there's a animals in the home that are upsetting to them, you have to keep them separate.

[00:34:22] But I always ask, you know, luckily where I am, we have a lot of house called veterinarians.

[00:34:28] So they're able to come to the home to, you know, do an exam or do labs.

[00:34:33] And we even do ultrasounds, which is amazing.

[00:34:35] So I say if it's not in the area, you know, create the demand for it so that there's a lot less stress because stress will torch the chronic disease.

[00:34:46] Hold the animal in prayer and whatever spirituality that you have.

[00:34:51] I mean, I tend to put, you know, Buddhist chanting on the background for the animal as they're dying or, you know, whether it's natural dying or I'm saying like I'm working with a client, whether they prefer natural or at home euthanasia.

[00:35:06] Try to find that.

[00:35:07] Try to find a vet that when the time comes that you could talk to you about quality of life issues and when is the right time for that.

[00:35:16] I think, you know, certain mantras to actually whisper in their ear are wonderful because, you know, hearing as the Tibetans and the book of the dead and dying, which is a sacred Tibetan text, hearing is the last sense to go.

[00:35:31] So I knew myself back in, you know, it was maybe 25 years ago and I was dealing with a lot of animals that were dying in the shelters and it was really causing me a lot of stress.

[00:35:41] I asked for mantras to whisper into their ears when I was on a pilgrimage in Nepal.

[00:35:47] So I tend to do that, you know, and medicine Buddha is a lovely prayer for end of life, whether it's human or for animals.

[00:35:57] If someone, you know, has the spiritual leaning towards Buddhism, I tend to sort of play that chant in the background too.

[00:36:03] But I really do think it's a holding sacred reverence and to just be there for them because that, you know, that sense of rescue to how do we hold death and dying with grace as opposed to let's make these heroic efforts.

[00:36:16] And for example, I mean, the animals and the cats going through chemotherapy is really, really tough on them, right?

[00:36:23] Their appetite goes.

[00:36:25] Can they even survive that liver failure, heart failure?

[00:36:28] I mean, it's so intensely stressful as opposed to, well, I know my animal has end stage cancer.

[00:36:33] How do I hold this as a place of reverence and grace?

[00:36:37] And I think grace is a really important word.

[00:36:39] How to not diminish, but to support, you know, so there isn't suffering, whatever they fear.

[00:36:44] But if their veterinarian recommends pain medication to hold that and to realize, you know,

[00:36:50] I think it's easier to make these decisions before your cat gets there or your pet.

[00:36:55] So I tend to talk to my clients about that way before chronic illness enters the picture.

[00:37:00] Well, think about it.

[00:37:01] You know, if your cat ever gets diagnosed with such and such or your dog, how would you like that for that to happen?

[00:37:07] Because a lot of times we're gripped with emotion.

[00:37:10] If suddenly you're, you know, get animals getting diagnosed and suddenly there's lymphoma,

[00:37:15] we're making a lot of decisions we probably wouldn't make if we had time to think about it.

[00:37:20] So if we're prepared and we make death part of the conversation and loss and grief prior during their life,

[00:37:28] when we reach that place, which we're all going to come to, it becomes something that we actually feel good about.

[00:37:36] Yeah.

[00:37:36] You're more mentally prepared for it.

[00:37:38] Yeah.

[00:37:39] Instead of that denial.

[00:37:41] Yeah.

[00:37:41] Or grasping, grasping to rescue and stay, which is where we're making emotional decisions that

[00:37:46] maybe aren't in line with what we truly believe.

[00:37:49] Yeah, that's very true.

[00:37:51] Well, thank you for that wisdom.

[00:37:52] I think that's going to be very helpful for a lot of people.

[00:37:55] Oh, great.

[00:37:56] So we've covered a wide range of topics.

[00:37:59] If we had to circle back and have you give one number one tip for cat owners to implement right away,

[00:38:07] what would you recommend?

[00:38:09] I think green up the household, however you can do it.

[00:38:11] You know, green, bring in the plants, bring in the fresh air,

[00:38:15] make it a little oasis of nature.

[00:38:19] Just keep remembering health is in the natural world.

[00:38:22] It is not in the laboratory.

[00:38:23] It is not in sterile environments.

[00:38:25] It's really amongst the planet.

[00:38:28] So however you can bring that into your home,

[00:38:31] try and develop a green thumb if you don't already have one,

[00:38:34] a little garden area, a greenhouse.

[00:38:37] Let your cat hang out.

[00:38:38] It's herbs.

[00:38:39] Yeah, herbs.

[00:38:40] Exactly.

[00:38:40] I think that's really beneficial.

[00:38:42] They get so much from that.

[00:38:44] And we have to really remember,

[00:38:45] we are tuned out because we're using our mind or our brains constantly.

[00:38:49] Their sensory awareness is so heightened.

[00:38:51] So whatever can appeal to their senses in a clean way,

[00:38:56] the clean air, the sound, the birdsong,

[00:38:59] looking out the windows,

[00:39:01] that they have a clear view of the outside.

[00:39:03] If you have some kind of view,

[00:39:05] you could draw wildlife to the areas as well

[00:39:08] so that there's some kind of stimulation.

[00:39:10] But we have to remember they're complex little creatures

[00:39:12] that are absorbing the world through their senses.

[00:39:16] So those are a couple of things that I would recommend.

[00:39:20] Yeah, I love that.

[00:39:21] Thank you very much.

[00:39:22] Thank you.

[00:39:23] So where can our audience learn more from you?

[00:39:26] Because I know you're a wealth of information

[00:39:28] and we all want to learn more.

[00:39:29] So please tell us where we can find more information.

[00:39:32] Well, my site is www.thenatureofthebeast.org

[00:39:37] or theadvocat.org.

[00:39:39] And I am on Instagram.

[00:39:41] It'll lead you to that if you get to the website.

[00:39:44] It's the natureofthebeast underscore SZ on Instagram.

[00:39:49] Okay, great.

[00:39:50] Well, for anyone listening,

[00:39:52] please be sure to follow, subscribe, and leave reviews

[00:39:55] if you love this interview.

[00:39:57] And this will help us reach more cat owners

[00:39:59] who can also benefit from this information.

[00:40:01] So once again, thank you again so much for your time.

[00:40:04] I really enjoyed talking with you today.

[00:40:06] It was quite a pleasure.

[00:40:07] Dr. Mait, it's a pleasure to meet you.

[00:40:10] I'm so glad.

[00:40:11] Thank you for your time today.

[00:40:12] Okay, we'll talk to you next time.

[00:40:14] Bye.