Irith Bloom: Avoid These 5 Things When Introducing Your Dog To Your Cat | E39

[00:00:00] I Would Rather Move One In Should A Time and Reach Success Then Go One Mile At A Time And Have To Keep ReSetting. So this is how I Start. Once we've, I don't know whether we're introducing a cat to a dog.

[00:00:16] I mean that is to say who's joining the house Hold First or Second. But as soon as the Second Animal Comes Into The House Hold, I Zone My House.

[00:00:26] This is the side for animal A. This is the side for animal B. If you live in a 500 square foot apartment in New York,

[00:00:34] In the city I mean, then it might need to be a bathroom or a closet for the cat and the rest of the space for the dog.

[00:00:44] But I Zone Things Out. And what that means is they're not going to run into each other by accident at any point. Welcome to The Pet Care Report podcast by Pet Summits. Here's your dog training host, Melissa Viera.

[00:01:03] Hello and welcome back. Here with me today to help us navigate the very important topic of introducing dogs and cats as globally recognized speaker and trainer E. Re. Bloom.

[00:01:16] E. Re serves on the board for the certification council of professional dog trainers and teaches at the Victoria still well. Academy of dog training. E. Re is also involved in organizations such as pets for vets and daily pause and she co-founded the freaking awesome dog project,

[00:01:37] which helps dog trainers grow their businesses. In addition, E. Re leads the sophisticated dog LLC. So welcome E. Re. I'm really excited to have this opportunity to talk with you on such an important subject that a lot of our listeners are waiting to hear about.

[00:01:54] Well, thank you so much. It's a real pleasure to have this opportunity and like you said,

[00:01:59] this is such an important topic. And I think that we all need to be mindful of what we do with cats and dogs because when things go wrong, they can go very, very wrong.

[00:02:11] So really important topic. Thank you so much for bringing it up and for having me. Absolutely. So let's kick this off by starting with what are some of the common mistakes that parents make when attempting to introduce their dog and cat.

[00:02:27] So the most common mistake I see is basically just putting the two animals loose together and hoping for the best.

[00:02:39] Now that will work once in a while, but it's not going to work very often and often what happens if you try that method is that you traumatize one or the other of the two animals.

[00:02:52] And then suddenly you're not starting at zero, which is where theoretically we could start. You're starting at like minus 27.

[00:03:00] And making progress is going to be so much harder. So that's the first thing is don't just assume they're going to get along because that's pretty uncommon for a cat and a dog just get along right off the bat.

[00:03:14] That's the biggest mistake that I see. Those are not the only mistakes, but that's the biggest one. And like you mentioned, starting at zero versus starting even under that point, this can really be detrimental to the relationship.

[00:03:27] Can you talk a little bit more about how that relationship can be damaged by introducing them without preparing in without really having a plan? That's such a great question. So one of the things is cats especially because they are both prey and predator.

[00:03:47] At some sort of basic ecological level, cats take threats very seriously. And if they feel threatened by the dog and they feel the need to either run away or stand there around and defend themselves. Either way, they're forming a negative emotional response to the presence of that dog.

[00:04:11] The first impression of the dog is a bad one. Like, oh that awful phyto. He's such a bully.

[00:04:18] He's big and he barked at me and he ran towards me and I was in fear for my life. And that's really going to set you back because cats are very slow to adapt to change in general.

[00:04:32] And if you start with a cat who's now afraid of what you're trying to make change happen around, it's going to be a real uphill battle.

[00:04:41] Now let's look at it from the dog's point of view. A couple things can go wrong with the dog. One is the dog sees the cat. The cat goes,

[00:04:48] whoop right out of the room. The dog is like, this is awesome. Something to chase. And now what you've taught the dog is that the cat is a prey animal that you're supposed to chase around.

[00:04:59] And even if they're not necessarily going to grab that cat and enter that cat, having that relationship where the dog's job is to chase and the cat's job is to run away is also not going to create a good relationship.

[00:05:12] Because the cat's always going to feel a little on edge around the dog. Even if the dog never touches them, never bites them, never even hits them with a paw.

[00:05:21] If you meet someone and every time you see them they start going, yeah, yeah, run away, run away. You're not going to feel very good about them.

[00:05:29] And if they never actually physically harm you. So that's one thing that can go wrong. The other thing that can go wrong, which is if anything the better of the two problems I guess is that the cat can be so scared that they injure the dog.

[00:05:45] And usually a cat will not injure dogs severely. There's a lot of that sort of size does matter and also cats are very good at being measured in how hard they claw.

[00:05:56] But in some cases what you'll see is the dog chases the cat, the cat is cornered the cat pulls out their claws and bobs the dog on the nose.

[00:06:04] Now the dog has scratches on its nose and now the dog is afraid of the cat. Now as I said, if I had to pick, I'd rather have the dog say I'm never chasing that thing again.

[00:06:15] But I really don't want either of them to be tiptoeing around in fear of the other animal.

[00:06:21] I want both of them to say, hey, this is great. I have a new companion and they're warm and sometimes they lick my ears or I have a new companion and if the dog has the right attitude and the cat has the right attitude, sometimes they'll even play together.

[00:06:36] That's what I'm looking for. Not this potentially fearful or adversarial or aggressive sort of relationship where there's threat and violence going on.

[00:06:50] These are all really good points and one thing I want to ask what can pet owners look for specifically I think in cats because I think a lot of people are pretty experienced.

[00:07:01] They can tell if their dog is about to chase the cat because they've seen their dog chase things in the yard and they kind of know that body language naturally, but what can they look for in their cat to tell if that cat is fearful maybe the cat has not resorted to hiding yet.

[00:07:16] But the cat is starting to show some signs that there are a little bit afraid of the dog. Right, another really great question. So things you can look for look for changes in their face.

[00:07:28] Their ears, their whiskers, I'm going to explain that one in a minute and their tail. So when a cat starts to be cats don't wag their tails the way dogs do.

[00:07:42] It's not to say that they don't move their tails or tails are incredibly mobile and incredibly important to them.

[00:07:46] But if your cat starts wagging its tail back and forth, that is a sign of agitation. They might not be running away yet but their stress levels are going up.

[00:07:58] Or you might see their ears go from trying to demonstrate this being like sort of new, new somewhere around there to being very forward, very focused. And that's another, what is that? That might be something scary. Another thing you might see their ears do is pin back.

[00:08:15] That's pretty extreme usually they'll already be doing other body language signals by the time their ears pin back.

[00:08:22] But if you know your cat's normal ear set, which is probably somewhere between forward and slightly to the side, when you see that change start asking yourself why is this changing? Is this in response to the presence of the dog?

[00:08:37] Another thing that cats do, which dog people don't really look for because dogs don't have as obvious a set of body language associated with their whiskers is they will push their whiskers forward or back.

[00:08:51] Depending on a situation and if you're cat sort of flares its whiskers forward, it may be about to attack. And if it's doing that, the cats are always sort of on the cusp of do I run away or do I attack?

[00:09:08] It's just not a good place to be in. So they you'll sort of start to see that and then of course look for the facial expressions if they start to kind of wrinkle up they open their mouth.

[00:09:19] Not the flamin response which is actually a super awesome thing to see in the cap more of the sort of snarly face. They may not run away they may just snarle they'll hunch.

[00:09:29] They get sort of hunched even before they turn into Halloween cat, which is a real thing by the way for those who have never seen a cat do it it is a real thing. But they'll tend to hunch they might make themselves small.

[00:09:41] They might tuck their tail in almost as if they're trying to make themselves as small as possible and they tend to get lower when they're scared and they tend to get taller.

[00:09:52] If they're about to be aggressive it's not always bad when a cat gets taller but there's tall and loose and then there's tall and I'm stiff and tall.

[00:10:02] So all of those things are little body language signs you can start to look for that will happen before that vocalization before the actual yowl or snarle that comes out of your cat and can tell you that the cats not feeling great about the scenario.

[00:10:20] In that case what you need to do is you need to intervene and the way I typically intervene is I call the dog away because I want the dog to learn when the cat does this stuff.

[00:10:30] You should walk away because if the cat can tell the dog please leave then the relationship's going to be a lot better.

[00:10:38] So would you say that working with the dog and this will actually go into another question altogether but working with the dog of how to come when called and that situation even before.

[00:10:49] And before introducing them is important. Yes, yes and this gets into I mean maybe I'm anticipating your question we'll see.

[00:10:57] Things I like a dog to know before I introduce a dog to a new animal of any kind cat dog rabbit whatever I've seen dogs co-habitate with all kinds of animals.

[00:11:09] I want them to know how to come when called. I want them to know how to do a hand target so if I put my hand down and I say touch or bring your nose to my hand or whatever my cue is touches the common one.

[00:11:20] The dog is going to rush over and go boom very gently to my hand.

[00:11:24] I also like them to have a there's your spot please go to it signal where I train them to go to either a specific location or a specific object or a specific object in a location you can do it any of those three ways.

[00:11:40] And basically you say go to your spot go to your mat whatever it is and that sends them away. So what if the cat is right at your feet you want the dogs to get farther away from the cat, but if you call the dog to your use a hand target.

[00:11:53] There's always any becoming straight at the cat so for that scenario you have the go over there. All of those are great things to train and practice a lot before the cat joins your household.

[00:12:05] Now, what about other things that parents can do to prepare before they even make this introduction aside from training somebody be setting up the environment or helping the cat prepare as well.

[00:12:18] So there's a lot of good stuff out there so first thing is especially if the cat is new to you learn what your cat likes what's as your cat enjoy.

[00:12:29] Does your cat enjoy playing with wand toys does your cat enjoy chasing things that are moving along the ground.

[00:12:36] Does your cat like to bat at things that are up high even if they're not being carried on a wand it's just hanging find to the stuff that really jazzy your cat up so that they will enjoy playing with that while you're in this scenario where,

[00:12:55] you know, there's potentially a dog in the room but you know that normally they will play with this so this is about finding a baseline and I'd like to clarify what I mean by that and then I'll talk about a couple other things to do with cats right when they come home.

[00:13:10] What I mean is if your cat won't play that's a signal that they're feeling a little anxious so for me especially with a new cat I may not know how they like to play I may not know what games really get them into like having fun and what games are like,

[00:13:29] not so much so if I'm trying to play with my cat the cats not really engaging in the play and I don't know my cat.

[00:13:35] Then I'm not sure are they not playing because they're a little anxious because there's a dog or they not playing because they don't really like this game.

[00:13:45] So the first thing I'm going to do is develop a sort of vocabulary with my cat this toy you like that toy you like this toy not so much.

[00:13:53] And then I can use that to test so to speak where is my cat how are they doing when the dog is way down the hall can they play with me what if the dog comes five feet closer can they still play with me and these are ways for us to see where the cats sort of sense of safety and where their emotional well being are.

[00:14:14] The other thing is especially when a cat comes to a new home it is a good idea to make the world very small because it is often stressful for them to be in a new space and stressed cats will do things like hide in places where you can't find them.

[00:14:30] And it can be really helpful especially if there are other animal smells in the home to say the cats going to stay in this little room they have a litter box all of themselves.

[00:14:42] They have water, they have food, they have toys that they can play with on their own if they're so inclined I'm going to visit them regularly but we're going to just keep them here while they get used to everything.

[00:14:54] Then when it comes time to introduce the dog at least the cat has a space that they feel safe in that they've gotten really comfortable with.

[00:15:03] It is sort of a base to retreat to anytime things aren't going so well and obviously you can also gradually expand that space to be bigger and bigger and I'm just going to go out on a limb right here and say I want every house to belong to the cat first.

[00:15:19] Then the dog because if anyone's going to feel uncomfortable it's usually the cat if anyone's going to be at safety risk it's usually the cat so I want them to be the ones who have more potential territory more sort of areas where they can feel comfortable and hide.

[00:15:38] The other thing you can do to prepare that's super helpful is put high things up. Catshells, cat trees, things that your cat can go on to that your dog can never reach and I'm just going to tell you right now some dogs can climb cat trees.

[00:15:53] So think about your dog's athletic ability and size and keep that in mind because you don't want a the dog climbing the cat tree or b the dog knocking over the cat tree and now the cat tree is no longer safe.

[00:16:07] So I am a big advocate of shelves because dogs just big can't make it up to a shelf but most cats can.

[00:16:13] That makes a lot of sense and I like that because that's not we're not relying on the object either like you said testing it out understanding your individual dog because.

[00:16:23] I mean I take my dog to the pet store a lot and walk around all the aisles and I see some of those cat trees and I know if my standard poodle jumped on one not cat tree would be right over so there's lots of really good idea.

[00:16:36] Yeah, I just say by the way, is this side note I love standard poodles but that's just a story.

[00:16:43] Now can you talk a little bit about what the perfect introduction so let's say we prepared we kind of know what the body language it look like in both animals even if you don't have to be an expert and dog behavior or cat behavior but just learning those basics of body language.

[00:17:00] So you feel prepared what does that first introduction look like if everything goes really well. So I am the queen of conservative.

[00:17:11] I would rather move one inch at a time and reach success then go one mile at a time and have to keep resetting so this is how I start once we've I don't know whether we're introducing a cat to a dog I mean that is to say who's joining the household first or second.

[00:17:31] But as soon as the second animal comes into the household I zone my house. This is the side for animal A, this is the side for animal B if you live in a 500 square foot apartment in New York.

[00:17:46] In the city I mean, then it might need to be a bathroom or a closet for the cat and the rest of the space for the dog but I zone things out.

[00:17:58] And what that means is they're not going to run into each other by accident at any point.

[00:18:05] Once in a while if I have a big enough space, I cross the zones by which I mean I'm going to let the cat explore the rest of my 500 square foot apartment.

[00:18:15] I don't live in Manhattan by the way, but I have in the past and I'm going to let the dog sniff around in the closet a little bit. So they're not seeing each other but they're getting to smell each other.

[00:18:28] Another thing you can do and I usually do this for at least a few days so we're talking about a few days of no, I don't see you. I don't interact with you, we don't touch noses, we're never in the same space at the same time.

[00:18:41] All I can do is smell you and possibly hear you. So another thing you can do is you can say well, you know the dog's been lying on this towel for a while.

[00:18:49] I'm going to put that in the space where the cat is to help the cat get used to the dog's smell. As I mentioned before, cats tend to be slow to adjust to changes in the environment. I think that's the nicest way to say it.

[00:19:03] I hope no cats out there are offended and so just getting used to all day every day I smell this dog's smell in my area is going to help them feel better when they get to the point where they're close enough to the dog to actually smell the dog.

[00:19:17] And while cats don't have the incredible scent acuity that dogs do, they are quite good smellers and they smell a lot of things quite well. So we want to keep that in mind. You can do the same thing with the cat's bedding.

[00:19:32] You take a towel that the cat has been lying on and you put that in the dog's area. So then when the dog encounters the cat it's not this big new exciting smell. It's oh, I've been smelling this for the last few days or for the last week.

[00:19:46] Then what I'm going to start to do is I'm going to, if I can again for those of you who live in a 500 square foot apartment in New York, I feel it. I really do, I feel you and I'm sorry.

[00:19:55] But most people are going to have at least two rooms where you can separate them with something like say a gate. So you put up a gate and then you put a towel or a sheet over it.

[00:20:08] What I want is the doors no longer closed between the two animals but there's this gate and they can't see each other yet.

[00:20:19] And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to do either some training or some play with each animal on either side of that barrier. So the cat is playing with a toy in the dog is getting treats and especially with the dog.

[00:20:33] I'm teaching the dog focus on me. The cat is around focus on me to cat is around focus on me.

[00:20:38] I might be asking the dog to sit or lie down or touch my hand or give me eye contact or walk with me on leash. It doesn't really matter, but whatever it is, the focus is on the handler. I don't want them going, what is that over there?

[00:20:51] I think I hear and smell something. Hey, somebody's playing. I don't want that because that's more interest than the cat will probably be able to handle.

[00:20:59] What I want is a cat who's like, I can hear the dog doing stuff but I'm having fun playing and here in remember if they stop playing. They're probably not having enough fun. They're probably a little anxious about the situation and you should stop.

[00:21:13] And at the same time, the dog is learning when the cat is around I'm supposed to focus or lie down or become. You can definitely practice things like a stay or the go to your mat or settle down with the dog.

[00:21:29] So we start there. We start with they can't see each other but stuff is going on on either side. And anytime either of the animals gets a little too stressed, whether that's I'm anxious or I'm too excited, stop simply stop.

[00:21:45] Because what you don't want them to be practicing is being overexcited or overstressed around each other.

[00:21:51] And I know that that doesn't sound like a behavior, like we talk about practicing a behavior the right way or the wrong way but emotions get laid down in our brains as circuitry just like behavior programs get laid down in our brains.

[00:22:05] And so I don't want them to be in that negative emotional state at all if I can avoid it. And then what I do very not shell is I gradually start peeling back that visual barrier.

[00:22:17] Now they can see an inch of each other. Now they can see two inches, now three inches.

[00:22:23] Another good tip for this is you may want to have the dog on a leash this entire time so that if they do get away they can't just crash through the barrier or jump over it.

[00:22:33] If the cat jumps over the barrier that's the cat's choice and usually that means the cat is more curious than fearful and usually it's okay but if the cat does jump over the barrier I want to make sure the dog is on leash.

[00:22:47] So the dog doesn't just rush the cat knock it over out of sheer excitement.

[00:22:53] Now you speak a lot about choices and animals and a lot of this applies just the choice of we're going to quit before they reach that level of stress or like you said excitement too because sometimes in my appear.

[00:23:08] They're really excited and having fun but that's actually sometimes being over the top can be stressful.

[00:23:13] So can you talk just a little bit more about why those choices are so important because you are the expert on this. So I just want to make sure we have your key takeaways on the importance of choices and all of this.

[00:23:25] Well thank you for asking that it is a topic that I'm incredibly.

[00:23:30] I'm passionate I guess is the where I want about and I've been speaking about it for more than 10 years because I want everyone to give more choices to the animals they live with so in a very very very small nutshell.

[00:23:44] When we have control in choice where able to choose what happens to us or what we're doing or where we go next that is very helpful. If you take away an animal's choice and control it is actually very stressful.

[00:23:58] So if you think about for yourself like when you're in an airplane seat and you can't move around very freely.

[00:24:07] Even if the airplane seat is comfortable you know your trapped on a plane and it is more stressful than if you were sitting in a chair even not a super comfy chair in your own home because the chair in your own home you can get up you can move around.

[00:24:22] You can get in your car you can do all kinds of things in the plane you may have to ask the people next to you to move.

[00:24:29] You certainly can't exit the airplane while it's in flight think about the difference between how those two things feel and that's like a very mild example of how our animals often feel because they don't have any control over where they go what they do when they eat who they spend time with.

[00:24:47] So with that in mind pay close attention is your dog. Interested meeting the cat at all some dogs are not is your cat interested meeting the dog at all some cats are not.

[00:25:02] If you do a gradual enough introduction so you know I talked about they're playing on either side the visual barrier is up eventually you take away the visual barrier and then eventually you open the actual barrier which is all of the dog on leash.

[00:25:16] And eventually once everyone's doing nicely in the dog can relax and the cat can relax then if you feel very safe you stop having the dog on leash or you have the drag the leash instead of you holding it.

[00:25:28] And you gradually work your way up to everyone hanging out together but in all that time. What you're watching for is are they making the choice to engage with each other are they making the choice to relax how can I honor that choice.

[00:25:42] In that animal so for instance if the cat keeps moving away when the dog is around maybe you're pushing too hard.

[00:25:50] And you need to honor that choice that they're making which is the one little choice they have in this situation is to go that way instead of this way.

[00:25:59] So in in all of those scenarios you look at what the animal is doing and you say how can I honor this choice. And then obviously most importantly never force two animals together.

[00:26:14] That would be like forcing to kids together at a high school, duh, middle school sorry middle school dance you know how well that usually goes.

[00:26:22] So everyone goes at their own pace and if you watch the body language and watch for those little choices at the animal is making you can make sure that the pace works for both animals.

[00:26:37] Sometimes you as a human are going to have to make the choice that these animals don't get to be loose alone together ever for safety reasons.

[00:26:45] Some dogs are not cat safe I'm just going to say that they cannot be taught to be cat safe there instincts are a little too strong and that can lead to potentially incredibly dangerous situations.

[00:27:00] Some cats will never relax around a dog some cats barely relax around humans and if that's the case and you need to honor that.

[00:27:09] But the good news is that the majority of cats and dogs can learn to get along and what I'll say is really helpful is if one side or the other is savvy so I know dog savvy cats dog savvy cats there's a lot of things they do first of all they stand their ground they don't run away.

[00:27:30] Because running away is where you get in trouble when you're a cat they're they're very quick to pull out their their paws but usually they bat the dog with closed.

[00:27:40] They don't have their claws out you know they can actually withdraw and extend their claws they just bat the dog with a closed hand effectively. So it's it's friendlier than this and.

[00:27:52] If they can tell when the dog is getting agitated and they get their way out of there quietly and slowly before anything bad happens so that's a dog savvy cat.

[00:28:02] A cat savvy dog I used to have one myself and it was such a joy to see him at work they speak cat.

[00:28:08] When they're around cats they use cat like body language it's really actually kind of cool and they would never chase a cat if a cat starts to run away they lie down instead.

[00:28:18] So if you have the opportunity to introduce your cat the first time and have it be a cat savvy dog that's really helpful.

[00:28:27] And then that cat becomes dog savvy and now you can introduce them to a dog who maybe isn't cat savvy so when I would really like to see all of us do I've kind of moved away from choice and into the like.

[00:28:40] Perfect world rainbow's unicorns of cat in dog is can we make all of our dogs more cats savvy can we make all of our cats more dogs savvy and then they'll know how to make the right choices themselves around that other species.

[00:28:56] That's great information. So what about long term so once once we've done these gradual introductions and the cat and the dog are doing really well together. Are there any maintenance techniques to keep them in that place of doing well?

[00:29:12] Great great question because things can change so the first thing I'm going to say is if you notice the relationship between the two animals changing.

[00:29:21] First thing I do is a vet check because often what's happened is one animal or the other has noticed a change in behavior and these changes in behavior can be very small and very subtle.

[00:29:34] And because we humans watch for a lot of things other than body language because of the way we communicate. We don't always notice we're not quite as fine observers of body language as cats and dogs are so if you notice your dog is starting to act different around your cat or your cat is starting to act different around your dog.

[00:29:52] As in suddenly they're a little more on edge with each other or the dog keeps putting himself between the cat and other things there may be something going on medically that's creating this.

[00:30:04] Another thing I've seen is that a dog or a cat will start to want to keep humans for themselves. And that's something you really need to watch out for because that can go very wrong very quickly.

[00:30:20] We're now all of a sudden every time you go to pet your cat the dog he doesn't enter the cat but he just literally butts in get himself in the way or every time you start to pet your dog your cat comes up and pushes the dog aside which I've again seen.

[00:30:38] So if you're seeing signs of that you want to sort of think about can I have each of them have a spot that they go to.

[00:30:46] And then when the cat comes over you're like you why don't you go hang out on your shelf and I will give you some padding later or if the dog comes to enter fear you say go to your mat and hang out it's cat time right now.

[00:30:58] So that's one of the things that I see going wrong often as animals age their behavior will change this is also sort of aside it's.

[00:31:07] Kind of like a medical thing it's another way of having a medical issue come up the cat may have more difficulty moving or the cats thyroid may not be working properly that's very common in cats.

[00:31:21] Or you know the dog may develop arthritis cast develop arthritis too and all of those things are going to change how they interact.

[00:31:29] You'll also potentially see that in the cats toileting behavior they may start to not use the litter box properly because they can't get in and out of it comfortably. But anytime you start to see those behavior changes in either animal.

[00:31:43] Put on your like careful observer glasses and watch the cat madog and see are they still relaxed and comfortable with each other start looking for that body language of discomfort even more carefully than you usually do.

[00:31:58] And if a problem comes up I'm actually going to say there are so many different types of problems it can come up it's a little hard to sort of.

[00:32:06] Describe solutions for things really quickly it's a good idea to consult a certified behavior consultant there are certified cat behavior consultants who are certified by an organization called the International Association of. The International Association of animal behavior consultants I should really know this I've been a member for.

[00:32:29] And I double ABC does actually have a cat consulting certification as well as a dog consulting certification look for that behavior consulting background any cat consultant is going to know how to deal with dog and cat issues dog consultants do not necessarily always know how to deal with cat issues so it's definitely worth finding an expert.

[00:32:52] Beware of the internet it will often give you.

[00:32:56] Contradictory and advice and sometimes advice that is just plain bad so just be careful if you're not if you're not comfortable with what's going on get an expert in and you can for a dog training expert you can look at the certification council for professional dog trainers the CCPTT website for cats and dogs IA ABC dot org.

[00:33:22] Very useful so that's ccpdt dot org and IA ABC dot org and there are other reputable organizations out there.

[00:33:28] But the one thing I'll say is if you do hire a professional anyone who tells you to yell at hit or otherwise do something that is violent or unkind to the animal is not a well qualified professional go find someone else.

[00:33:44] But with all that said to get back to the main question. Even when things are going really well always have that. Power things going in your mind just a little bit at least every day watch the interaction.

[00:33:59] Everyone can have a bad day they're like brothers and sisters right when you all live together in a household everyone can have a us my brothers pissing me off today day and that doesn't necessarily mean that everything's going to go wrong.

[00:34:12] But if there are multiple oh boy my siblings really getting under my skin kind of days.

[00:34:18] You need to start thinking about what to change and often what to change is just giving them a break from each other and making sure that each of them gets to have a loan time with you.

[00:34:28] And a loan time of their own at least some of the time every day. Well thank you for that this has been great you shared so much valuable information today. Is there a place our listeners can find you where's the best place to follow your work.

[00:34:43] So the best place to follow my work is the sophisticated dog dot com. I have links there to my Facebook page and to other places where you'll find me I try to put up events before they happen although I'm a little behind right now.

[00:35:02] And then another place you can find me if you are a pet professional and looking for support as a pet professional is the freaking awesome dog project which is it awesome dog project dot com.

[00:35:16] And I love to hear from people so please do feel free to reach out with questions and thoughts I love that awesome. Thank you again for being here with me today and thank you to our listeners we hope you found so much value in today's episode.

[00:35:30] Make sure you subscribe and share so we can reach more pet parents with experts such as a re Glue. Thank you so much until next time. Thank you, bye everyone.